Or, have a top limit of 4 spaceports per map.
:whistle:
:whistle:
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Reply: Risk 2210 A.D.:: Variants:: Re: feedback on Galactic risk
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Reply: Risk 2210 A.D.:: Variants:: Re: feedback on Galactic risk
However, a mobile launch pad sounds cool.
It might seriously mess up the game balance, though.
It might seriously mess up the game balance, though.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Box 1 spoiler questions
by Tomans
Thank you guys!!↧
Thread: SeaFall:: Rules:: Box 4 Question (spoiler)
by Yavuial
[o]Does Padmos enmity affect your raiding dice when conquering Ker or not ?[/o]↧
Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Box 4 Question (spoiler)
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New Video for Pandemic Legacy: Season 1
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: So.. is this game "Fun" ?? (post SUSD review inquiry)
by Slyght
Becq wrote:
So then the question is, what other games do you love that require success rolls on actions you take?
If the answer is few or none, then the theory that Ameritrash vs Eurogame is the main factor in liking this game gains traction.
If the answer is few or none, then the theory that Ameritrash vs Eurogame is the main factor in liking this game gains traction.
The fact that you have to roll dice in this game is not an issue we have with the game. I still like the game overall, and it's probably my third favorite game of the year, but the reason it's so high on my list is because of the legacy aspects of the game.
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Thread: SeaFall:: Strategy:: Getting Discouraged
by Grimwalker
After game 5, I'm up to 27 Glory and the leader is up to 53. (The front runner got some Raid-promoting benefits and is basically immune to Permanent Enmity) Everybody else has won at least one game and is improving their setup hand over fist while I'm continually losing tempo.I really don't know what to do at this point.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Strategy:: Re: Getting Discouraged (minor spoilers)
by jayarsea
Go for the milestones that are out there and get in on the glory fest.Stop buying goods to sell them unless it's going to get you a milestone- buying goods is a trap.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Strategy:: Re: Getting Discouraged (minor spoilers)
by Nicholas M
Are you using your bonus stuff at the beginning? You could take 18! gold extra next game. Or some gold and some reputation.And, as starting player, you have first shot at every available milestone.
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Thread: SeaFall:: Rules:: Box 5 Searching for help... Spoilers included
[o]First question about Temples and Tortosa[/o]
[o]We are 10 plays in and opened 5 boxes. The 1st temple we have found is on Tortosa. Have we missed something? or have we not explored enough?[/o]
[o]Question on Tortosa[/o]
[o]"Raids add permanent enmity instead of enmity tokens" Does this apply on all Islands (like in the case of Ker) or is this only at Tortosa?[/o]
[o]We are 10 plays in and opened 5 boxes. The 1st temple we have found is on Tortosa. Have we missed something? or have we not explored enough?[/o]
[o]Question on Tortosa[/o]
[o]"Raids add permanent enmity instead of enmity tokens" Does this apply on all Islands (like in the case of Ker) or is this only at Tortosa?[/o]
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: [Heavy Spoiler - Game 5] [Rant] What the actual Fxxk?
by Ranior
lactamaeon wrote:
Ranior wrote:
So for Seafall, the only way to win consistently is to race for the milestones.
I don't think this is really correct. I've already seen how much glory someone can get without milestones.
We'll likely disagree on this point. Perhaps it does change later in the campaign, but through the first five games the race for milestones seems to be the main way to win. You could explore some islands I suppose for quick glory gains, or getting to those tombs quickly, but in general the best way to get glory and permanent upgrades is to get those milestones. At least in my campaign I have lost the race for several milestones and now sit in last place with few upgrades. I am getting some decent catch up bonuses, but for the most part they just serve to get me to be on equal footing with the other players whose upgraded leaders and fields already grant them more gold and fortune/reputation than I start with anyhow.
lactamaeon wrote:
The idea that you will try to purely raid is the one that confuses me.
But if you read the OP (spoiler alert) you also know that there are some decent actions which can crop up and grant significantly higher rewards based on your raid value.
It's possible you haven't unlocked this yet, or all those possibilities have been claimed already. But there should still be ways to set up for next game.
I should clarify, I didn't mean to literally purely raid even though that is what I wrote. In particular here though I have spent some time upgrading my ship to be better at raiding. I also do have once permanent upgrade that enables me to tax for four instead of three. Finally I have the advisor that gives two fortune tokens when he is activated, and also provides a benefit to raiding and taxing with his upgrades. In general it would seem to me that main advantage I have over my other players is in my ability to raid effectively and efficiently. I cannot compete easily with their exploration focused choices. Unless I get very lucky with some great advisors falling to me, but in general that hasn't happened. So I mostly have been trying to raid to get ahead as that is what I can do better and faster than them.
The issue is right now that there are not things that are making that work for me. The explorers continue to explore islands and skull sites that are difficult for me to manage since I do not have explore upgrades. They also have some research upgrades that make that action better and more efficient for them. The large benefits from the skull sites make that a great use of actions, while the burst glory from finding a new island is great for them. Meanwhile I try to raid the best targets I can find, but in general it does not exist. So I go for the milestone I can which relate to having some colonies. But I struggle to get colonies built, especially when the game lasts so few turns and I need to upgrade my holds which I haven't yet done since I didn't know I'd need to until the colony rules emerged. So my games have been trying to raid a hold upgrade and then get enough money to get the goods I need to build a colony to set up for some long term advantages. But suddenly a tomb emerged and I didn't get another turn to actually build my colony when someone went into it and suddenly ended the game rapidly through that unforeseen burst of glory.
I may just be playing poorly, but I personally don't really think that is it. I am taking actions that make sense based on what I know about the game, but the game keeps presenting crazy things that are benefiting the explorers in the group while my upgrades to raid are not rewarded through any milestones or easy sources for big glory. Perhaps another tomb will open soon and I can get some great glory from visiting it, but that assumes I know when and where the next tomb will open so I can be the first to deal with it, but that will require some luck to have that occur.
Overall, things may work themselves out with more plays. To be honest I dearly wanted this game to be great and I overlooked some of these issues when I was playing my first several games. I wanted to believe all the others reviewers and reports were over stating the problems the game had. But as I play more games, I am finding and running into the exact same issues I have been reading about others having. In particular, I strongly agree with the OP of this thread, as my experiences are very similar.SeaFall is frustrating me more than it is providing enjoyment to me at this point, and there are noticeable failures that I overlooked until they actually happened to me. I personally hope you continue to have great fun with the campaign and love it. Some certainly have. But for those who are having problems and are quitting their campaign, I also totally understand that and will agree that SeaFall has true problems that hold it back from being great.
lactamaeon wrote:
See, this is part of my confusion. To me, Seafall offers the option to raid, explore, AND be a merchant, and it is up to me to decide how hard to pursue each one depending on the current game state.
I do get that the hidden rules make it feel like you had to make some blind choices and got punished for it sometimes. I don't know that there is a way to avoid that entirely for legacy games. I also think that you should be able to find some stuff to do with what you have, though.
I suspect there is a way to avoid that for Legacy games--you simply have to make the choices more balanced and support the different choices roughly fairly. In my experience right now, those who preemptively increased their holds before the colony rules emerged have benefited as they can construct colonies easier and quicker. Those who increased their explore values are getting rewarded with glory rich explore targets in the skull sites and finding new islands. But I upgraded my raid early and often and feel I am getting screwed because of it right now as my opponents can race towards glory quicker than I can hope to. If there was a milestone or two I could go for via raiding right now it would seem better, but there doesn't seem to be one. While there is some stuff to do with what I have, I find it hard to figure out a strategy that will enable my build to actually earn glory faster than my opponents, unless I get flat out lucky with what advisors show up or certain events tip in my favor.
While SeaFall does allow you to be a merchant at times or an explorer at times or a raider at times, I didn't realize how much you may want to diversify. Early on it seemed upgrading raid would be fine as I could raid upgrades and compete with the explorers and merchants for glory via raiding. But those choices to specialize in raiding are not getting rewarded, while upgrading other things is. I think that's clearly a game design problem that could have been handled better.
For what it is worth, I will admit in particular this issue may be exacerbated in my three player campaign however as there is so much to explore for three players that there really isn't a need to raid to get stuff as there are plenty of readily available goods and places to explore. So maybe I just made a mistake in upgrading raid so often early on, but again how should I have known that?
MadRobin wrote:
We have had several games in our campaign so far that ended before anyone could get a milestone, or where the only person to get a milestone came in last. I think that's become more common as we've gotten farther in the campaign and there are more varieties of non-milestone points (we have opened 4 boxes).
Gotcha. That does sound really good. The early games are dominated by milestones and have been ending in like 5-8 total turns which is just so fast and makes winning require milestones or other bursts of glory. And again, the only sources of those that I have found are skull sites, the tombs that rapidly close, exploring new islands, or milestones.
I'd love if the game got a bit better in the future. Pherhaps I just need to ride out some bad games to get to the good ones. But I don't really see why I should do that when I have so many other great games and everyone in our group is mostly finding SeaFall to be an alright but not remarkable game. For those who are loving it, I'm very glad. I wanted to love SeaFall, and I still think there are many brilliant parts to SeaFall and many things I do love. I still love legacy mechanics and look forward to future legacy games. I just hope that the flaws of SeaFall are recognized and future legacy designers take some of this feedback to make better games. To be honest, I would be ecstatic if they make a SeaFall 2 and use many of the same base mechanics and work on some of the balancing aspects and the other complaints here. I'd be all in. But as is, I am not sure I will bother to play through the rest of this campaign on the hopes that the games get a bit more fair and better compared to how it currently looks and feels.
MadRobin wrote:
I also happen to like the variability and the reasoning and decision-making based on inferences and incomplete information. I can understand that's not everyone's cup of tea.
For what it's worth, to the extent that our group has specialized (which, it sounds like, is less than some groups), the dominant specialization (source of victory points) has switched around quite a lot over the course of 7-8 games.
The incomplete information in particular is the killer for me. I can't very well make well informed decisions to dictate my strategy when sudden twists and turns can screw me but reward my enemies. I was confused when one guy was upgrading his hold in an early game just to make it harder to raid him and so he could sell a bit more easily as a merchant. But then colonies emerged and he was well ahead of the race to be able to found some because he made that choice when no one else knew what was coming. That's just frustrating to me, particularly when many milestones reward a player for being the first to have some colonies. I do not see how I can stop them from completing that before me, nor can I see how I can possibly earn enough glory quickly enough to prevent him from winning the next game because of that.
As is, I'm glad that the source of glory has shifted around during the campaign. Like I said for the three of us at least, the games have mostly been about exploring. There are so many good sites to explore, most give nice benefits, and exploring new islands gives tons of quick glory to end a game. I could try to join them and explore, but when they have a 5 explore ship and some good advisors to manage it, while I haven't upgraded my explore, it's pretty impossible to challenge them for exploring the juicy targets.
Ah well. I think I've made my points clear, and I don't expect everyone to agree. I know a few weeks ago I ignored reports and rants that I am now typing--back then I hadn't experienced the issues for myself and wanted to believe SeaFall was the great game I hoped it would be. I can still understand how many groups will absolutely love SeaFall still. But for the type of gamer that I am, the incomplete information and the random swings in glory and the reveals making prior decisions seem foolish in hindsight....well it is really frustrating. And with no clear way forward right now in order to stop someone from beating me this next game, it just doesn't seem like a game for me. I totally understand why it may not be a game for many, and how it will lead to frustrations for some. To the OP and others who are having rants about the balance, you are not alone. I really doubt I will every complete SeaFall. To those who are loving it and either don't agree these are problems or just can overlook them for the other fun parts, great! I hope you love SeaFall and have a great time with it. There are many parts to like and even love.
Thanks for the discussion everyone. It's interesting to see what makes games for different people stand out and be enjoyable. Like I say, I really hope we continue to see new and interesting legacy games. I love the legacy mechanics of SeaFall. I just hope we get some legacy games in the future that improve upon mine and others experiences of actually playing SeaFall.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Strategy:: Re: Getting Discouraged (minor spoilers)
by lactamaeon
Getting hit by the event deck like that is pretty rough.26 points behind should get you some pretty sweet starting rewards, that you should be able to use to build a glory-engine somewhat quickly.
Selling goods without a milestone involved is usually a trap, but buying for 3g each can be okay if you are going to be able to turn them into 8g discounts without spending too many actions sailing them around.
This is definitely not a game where you should pick one strategy and pursue it to oblivion. Finding an efficient path to glory based on the current stuff available is key. Getting yourself in the mood to do that should also help you adapt when the event deck decides to get mean.
If you aren't doing this already, it might be a good idea to start taking pictures of the board, milestones, unlocked upgrades/buildings/rules stickers, and everyone's permanent status/kept cards at the end of each game. I've been doing this and sharing the pictures with my group online, and it can make planning your next steps easier.
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Thread: SeaFall:: General:: Grumpy about my purchase. Worth it with just 2?
by Anarchosyn
I don't really have a game group anymore. My girlfriend is always up for play, and I have many friends up for a get-together, but nothing regular at the moment.I was planning on getting a group together specifically for this, likely a four player arrangement, but (correct me if I'm wrong) it seems like the people you start with will need to be the people you see the game through to the end with, yes?
Initially, when I assumed this game was great fun throughout, that didn't bother me, but review after review has implied it's a slow burner -- saving its "hook" moments till session 4~8. I had trouble getting people together to finish a Time Stories session, let alone a bunch of slow burning mediocre sessions before it became fun.
Let me be clear here: I'm not worried the game won't be fun. I'm worried about keeping my group together if the initial sessions are.. "so so."
Questions:
1) I get the legacy system kind of mitigates people joining mid campaign (e.g. jumping into Session 4 without having played the previous three, etc). Assuming I'm not incorrect about this, does it equally penalize the overall experience if people drop out?
It seems likely that, if I start with 4, I might end up with 3 or 2 after a few weeks... and I'd like to know if the game can withstand that. If the game can withstand that, I'll start with 4. If it would hurt the game, I'll likely change my plans and shoot for 2.
2) The box says 3 player min, many people in this forum seems to feel its ok with 2 (especially if you're less interested in winning and more about creating an experience). We're not interested in PvP anyway.
Are their concrete failings with two? I mean mechanical elements that don't work very well (i.e. auction mechanics, etc).
Lastly,
3) Does this game really take two sessions to get going? Universally I've heard the prologue isn't fun -- is the prologue the full first session?
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Grumpy about my purchase. Worth it with just 2?
by Dolus
I've never played, only read feedback from others. For the people who stick with the game, they should continue playing their same faction. But there are rules for adding/dropping players throughout the game, so if you have to, I would let others join the game as/if people dropped out, if they're willing to join having missed the first couple sessions (which they probably would be from your description of your group).People who've played 2 player have said it was fine, but it sounds like if they did it again, they would rather have done it with 3 or 4 to have a better time.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Box 5 Searching for help... Spoilers included
by heyvince
Windship2Mars wrote:
[o]I found in another thread that the permanent enmity is only at Tortosa... but still wondering about temples... feels like we missed something[/o]
[o]The only Temple (we are also five boxes in) is at Tortosa. Not sure what gave you the impression there would be more than one. If you mean Tombs and not Temples, than yes there are many tombs. You need to explore unknown sites to find them. [/o]
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: [Heavy Spoiler - Game 5] [Rant] What the actual Fxxk?
by Ranior
lactamaeon wrote:
Have you tried stealing an explore-focused advisor from your friends? From the sound of it, there should be several out there, and it seems unlikely that they would have the investment necessary to take it back.
Also, since upgrades can act as extra "hit points" on your ships, raiding docks for even unrelated upgrades can get you a glory boost now and allow you to attempt higher explores without sinking a turn or two later. But I'm not sure you need that...
So you have seen the tombs (and thus the rules for tombs), so you know that some Tomb sites can be "explored" with other values instead of the explore, and that tomb sites can give out "unforeseen" bursts of glory and/or other great rewards.
(It's possible that your group misread the rules? When entering a tomb, the order is a bit off from other explores. You pick the site and go to the Captain's Booke *first*, and then only roll what the entry tells you. You don't have to succeed on an explore roll first.)
Indeed, I consistently raid docks. It is one of the best actions for my raiding ship to take. The extra hit points and abilities are nice.
I did one time go and steal a great exploration advisor and got one use out of him to explore a decently difficult site. But I was raided back not long afterwards. That is the issue I just cannot understand. Most people on these boards seem to suggest or think that you can raid one of those players in the lead to get a leg up. But the enmity system seems to just allow that player to very easily retaliate and do the same thing right back. Perhaps I could steal an explore advisory towards the end of the game and keep it, but again, is the right play really to switch to joining them in exploration and try to compete despite being down in end game ship upgrades to explore? Perhaps it is. Maybe I just have to do that. But if so, that's pretty lame and I'll feel pretty far behind still in trying to maintain. Not to mention now I may be leaving that player permanent enmity. I can sure try it again though. But has anyone out there really succeeded with this type of action? To me the fact your enemy can quickly retaliate means that raiding other players doesn't benefit you all that much as the enmity you leave behind allows your opponent to get that extra offense they need to raid you back.
We are playing tombs correctly. The first tomb that opened, we did not look at the back of the book right away. We thought you would just pick an entry like the front of the book and that you might randomly get an explore, or sail, or raid endeavor. Because of this I spent a few turns trying to build up a few ship upgrades so I could handle whatever endeavor I got. One of the other players just rushed into the tomb instead hoping to get explore--it was at that moment it became obvious you could essentially pick your type of endeavor, even though the rules did not make that clear, nor did any of us think it was clear we should take a look at that map until we were exploring a tomb.
So perhaps it is our fault there, but I don't really think so. So either way I got beat to the first one. We've only had one other one open up, and it was closed right after. I didn't even have a chance to go for the second one the way the turn order worked out.
I'd love to go to one with raid. I suppose eventually perhaps the explore based rooms will run out and only raid rooms will exist and I can go finally succeed? Perhaps eventually I just will be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of one? But as is my experience with them continues to lead in to my experiences of just random elements happening in the game that I can't really prepare for or play around that are giving my opponents a big edge over me.
I'm hopeful that I'm just unlucky and other groups aren't experiencing these issues. However I've read enough of these boards to see other players have rants like the OP and elsewhere that suggest to me that many moments in SeaFall are just flat out frustrating. I know my recent experiences in my last several games have had several moments of anguish for me and a few moments for the other players. I'm not sure my group is one to just want to solider though those for another 10 or so games.
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Grumpy about my purchase. Worth it with just 2?
by lactamaeon
Here are some links to players who have played two-player campaigns and enjoyed themselves:https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1660984/just-finished-2-pla...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1672579/review-seafall-afte...
I would in general recommend playing with the same group, and only playing when everyone in the group can show up. The game is still playable with people dropping in and out or taking over an existing province, but will likely be more difficult/less fun for those players.
I thought the prologue was fine, but we followed it up with the first full session right away.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Box 5 Searching for help... Spoilers included
Thanks Vince, good to know we didn't miss anything...
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: [Heavy Spoiler - Game 5] [Rant] What the actual Fxxk?
by MadRobin
Ranior wrote:
I did one time go and steal a great exploration advisor and got one use out of him to explore a decently difficult site. But I was raided back not long afterwards. That is the issue I just cannot understand. Most people on these boards seem to suggest or think that you can raid one of those players in the lead to get a leg up. But the enmity system seems to just allow that player to very easily retaliate and do the same thing right back.
The emnity you place from raiding goes on the council room (or whatever site you raid) until winter, so they can't use it effectively (on offense) to retaliate until the next year when it's in the at-war area. For us, that basically means never.
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