by Wolvercote
A few of us at the guild were babbling on about this last night. Lots of interest to say the least! Grateful for the visit. Thank you.↧
Reply: Fireball Island: The Curse of Vul-Kar:: General:: Re: Sneak Preview Event in Providence
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Reply: Fireball Island: The Curse of Vul-Kar:: Crowdfunding:: Re: FIREBALL ISLAND UPDATES!!
Are we getting any updates today?
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order
by hokuto_su
We also recon in the wrong order. We built permanent supply centres in the 3 Europian and African locations. We also got the upgrade allowing one fewer card.We recon out of Cairo in May, immediately regret it... then London and Lagos in June.
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Reply: Fireball Island: The Curse of Vul-Kar:: Crowdfunding:: Re: FIREBALL ISLAND UPDATES!!
by Bodhibelly
OldDustJacket wrote:
Are we getting any updates today?
I'm guessing that they will keep to their schedule of updates on Tues and Thurs going into the KS launch next week. Though the last update didn't come out until after noon (CST), so it is probably dropping later. If you look a Justin's previous post it looks like there are some more details that will drop.
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order
by Tonesta78
Whilst having some sympathy for the OP.....I also think you could have guessed when the game was going to 'give' you each region, and reacted accordingly.
Even if you don't scratch off the "If you haven't opened....." cards, you can pretty much work out what they're going to be from the doors mentioned.
At the beginning of February, the game gave you North America
Beginning of March it was the South America hurry up.
Beginning of April, it gave you South America
Beginning of May, it gave you the Pacific Haven
Kind of stands to reason that the next easiest one is coming up next....and given a) the number of blue cards you've likely got in your deck at this point and b) the fact that it's only four cards, it seems pretty logical that it would be Europe
We used that same logic to deduce that we had to complete the Middle East search in July (we had some bad luck in earlier months with black cards) and planned accordingly
(of course that turned out to be lucky because it meant we didn't have the Hollow Men for long before we had tools to deal with them)
Now of course trashing Frankfurt is a pretty harsh penalty (and one I didn't know about), but I don't think it was impossible to work out that there was going to be some penalty.
Whilst Season 2 does give you more freedom to do things when you want.....the game still has to keep things moving at a certain rate, else the end of the game would be impossible for some.
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order
by squegeeboo
hokuto_su wrote:
We also recon in the wrong order. We built permanent supply centres in the 3 Europian and African locations. We also got the upgrade allowing one fewer card.
We recon out of Cairo in May, immediately regret it... then London and Lagos in June.
We recon out of Cairo in May, immediately regret it... then London and Lagos in June.
Can you can recon Cairo before either London or Lagos? There aren't enough unique black cards in the initial board layout. I guess the right upgrade might let you sneak thru with only 4...
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Ok, i understand (from various threads) that this game is not meant to be a 2p game...
by CheddarLimbo
dommer2029 wrote:
reshurc wrote:
I would go ahead and search the Seafall forums for "2P" and read all the in-depth analysis.
Worked fine for my wife and I. But we didn't play super competitive. I was already in a 4P campaign so was just having her experience the story. She loved it.
Just wait for Black Friday/Holiday deals to start popping up. This game regularly sells for $25-30 to clear stock.
Worked fine for my wife and I. But we didn't play super competitive. I was already in a 4P campaign so was just having her experience the story. She loved it.
Just wait for Black Friday/Holiday deals to start popping up. This game regularly sells for $25-30 to clear stock.
Just chiming in to say that I bought a copy from the Asmodee sale and am planning to play this 2p in the same style. Wish us luck!
Just wondering if you ever got this to the table and how it went!
I have a copy of the game, and my GF and I are strongly considering trying the 2P variant with less resources, and reduction of the glory gained for milestones.
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Ok, i understand (from various threads) that this game is not meant to be a 2p game...
by dommer2029
CheddarLimbo wrote:
dommer2029 wrote:
reshurc wrote:
I would go ahead and search the Seafall forums for "2P" and read all the in-depth analysis.
Worked fine for my wife and I. But we didn't play super competitive. I was already in a 4P campaign so was just having her experience the story. She loved it.
Just wait for Black Friday/Holiday deals to start popping up. This game regularly sells for $25-30 to clear stock.
Worked fine for my wife and I. But we didn't play super competitive. I was already in a 4P campaign so was just having her experience the story. She loved it.
Just wait for Black Friday/Holiday deals to start popping up. This game regularly sells for $25-30 to clear stock.
Just chiming in to say that I bought a copy from the Asmodee sale and am planning to play this 2p in the same style. Wish us luck!
Just wondering if you ever got this to the table and how it went!
I have a copy of the game, and my GF and I are strongly considering trying the 2P variant with less resources, and reduction of the glory gained for milestones.
I think the game worked fine as a two-player game, except that the runaway leader problem was exacerbated because it's impossible to gang up on the leader.
We thought that there wasn't enough carryover from game to game, so we carried over a certain amount of buildings and upgrades after each game. (Let n be the number of the game just played, then carry over up to (n-1)*6 gold worth of buildings and upgrades.) Of course, if you enjoy the early part of the game, where you are earning gold to buy the buildings and upgrades you need to advance the plot, you can play through it in full every time.
To deal with the runaway leader problem, we gave the player that was behind an additional 3 gold at the beginning of the game for every net game loss.
Unfortunately, the game really soured on me toward the end. The rules get very muddy, to the point that there's at least one thing that you are supposed to do despite having been explicitly instructed to the contrary. So one of you will need to "scout ahead" by reading rules threads, at least when you get to the last two boxes, even though this will give you advanced notice of some surprises.
My theory is that they just ran out of money/time in development. They had the basic idea of what they wanted to do, playtested the early scenarios until they were solid, but either didn't test the later scenarios much at all, or else did a couple of rounds of finding and fixing issues and then had to ship it.
By the time we got to the end, we decided to stop playing and just read the book to see how the story would unfold if we had completed the last few milestones. But the first few games were fun enough. So ... yeah, play it while it's fun, but when things stop working well, just know they're not going to get better again.
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order
by Antistone
Cairo recon requires 4 unique black cards. To do it, you need at least ONE of the following:[o]- connect Moscow (revealed by doing recon from London)
- connect Antananarivo (revealed by doing recon from Lagos; connecting it also requires the Chart Sea Lane action from the end of the first game in March)
- the Outrider character upgrade (revealed by doing recon from São Paulo)[/o]
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order
by loudwalrus
I agree with the posters so far. Although one thing I'll add is that the hollow men are not nearly as bad as they seem at first. Sure, they are a giant pain in the behind, but they do not cause incidents. And incidents lose games. We recon'd Cairo in May, which seemed really good, and the results seemed like a punishment. But, in retrospect, it meant that losing was a lot less likely. Sure the hollow men got in our way, and hurt population, but incidents became a lot less common and that meant we had a lot less pressure to win immediately or lose.↧
Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: Best player count?
by loudwalrus
I have only played with three players, so I don't think I can definitively answer. I'd love to hear from someone who played with different character counts. It's also interesting to separate "better" and "easier".I'm going to put my opinion in spoiler tags. While I don't give any specific spoilers I will be talking overall strategy with the retrospective of having played the entire season. I will avoid mentioning any specifics, and aim to have it be ok to read even at the prologue level, but am putting it in spoiler tags in case you are a purist.
Tl;DR: I think 3 worked optimally. Four is probably good too, and while two is possible I imagine it has issues compared with three or four. If I had two players I'd play with four characters. If I had three, I wouldn't do what you did with Season 1, I'd use three actual characters.
[o]
In most ways I don't think Season 2 is similar to a traditional Pandemic game in that larger player counts give you more versatility of abilities and more ability to cover the map. Ahd, as a drawback, the longer delays between turns (with many players) means that the person nearby to a trouble spot may not be able to act in time. And, in fact, the delays between turns means that you have to be more careful about where you end your turn as there are more chances for something to go wrong during other people's turns.
The difference is, however, is in the character upgrades. Overall, I have to say that I was very happy with three players/characters. The upgrade system (where scars can overwrite abilities), the diversity of upgrades, and the importance of certain upgrades, meant that spreading out the upgrades a bit is very important. In Season 1, it seemed like you should always just bring your "best" characters. In Season 2, it seems a reasonable strategy to have specialists that might be important for some months, but not for others. With 3 I felt like every character we brought to a given month was critical, and no one player's character was less valuable than any other.
With two characters, I just don't think you'd get to do that. There are too many "must have" abilities to ever bring a specialist character if you only could bring 2 characters. In fact, I feel like with only 2 characters they'd each end up so stacked with the critical "must have" upgrades that I'd be worried about scars and I'd never take an ability that wasn't mission critical. I know traditionally two characters is considered easiest, and there will still be advantages to only two, but I think there would be issues with only bringing two to the table.
Four is probably a great number of characters as well. But, there would be a lot of downtime if you had 4 actual players. That's nothing different than normal Pandemic, as there's certainly a lot of group strategizing, but given how few turns you have to win (From a practical perspective) I appreciated the extra time I got with having only three players. Also, if you had 4 players I feel like you would have the opposite problem I described above: you'd start to feel like every character you brought wasn't equally valuable. Some had the essential "must have" upgrades and others less important.
[/o]
OK, now for the real spoilers, with some backup on the details. Effectively, spoilers for end of game.
[o]
Answering this question made me think about our characters, and how I'd space out the abilities. Of course, we didn't place abilities ideally because we didn't have perfect foresight. But I think we did OK. But essentially I felt like we had four characters, of which we needed 3 for any given month.
We had:
"Supply Center Specialist": Laborer/Architect + Helmsman. Laborer/Architect is an obvious combo, but Helmsman was also "must have" because it let him get where he needed to go. It was a super powerful upgrade and since this character was in almost all of the months, it paid off well on this character. Broker would have been ideal too, but we were worried about all of our eggs being in one basket if there was a traitor.
"Recon Specialist": Outrider + Scout + Record Keeper, plus some miscellaneous. Record Keeper probably wasn't necessary, but it was cheap. He mostly stayed home except for recon months.
"Search Specialist": Captain + Lookout + Facilitator + Coordinator. I think Captain + Lookout is a good combo because it lets you get to the places where searches need to happen. Navigator would have been the better combo, but we already had that picked when we setup this character.
"Supply Specialist": Immunologist + Courier + Broker + some misc abilities. Broker was probably a mistake, as noted before, but this was another character we thought we would bring on most missions (we were a little wrong on that). The point of this character was in the lean months where we were short on supplies
[/o]
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Reply: Fireball Island: The Curse of Vul-Kar:: General:: Re: Will you accept suggestions for gameplay?
by Vascariz
Omg so excited by that concept!!! I'll definitely keep a close eye on the diaries!↧
Reply: Fireball Island: The Curse of Vul-Kar:: Crowdfunding:: Re: FIREBALL ISLAND UPDATES!!
by Vascariz
Vascariz wrote:
Firstly, I'm super excited! Especially with the set collection aspect which I think brings in a strategic element above and beyond the original.
I had two main queries (which are also scattered around under threads so feel free to just reply here):
1) There are references to more marbles with different physical characteristics. Will there be marbles with different effects? E.g. getting hit with a snake (poison effect) vs getting hit with a fireball - making this up - (set alight), or even positive effects?
2) Will there be ways to modify the marbles or geography to suit you, or to the detriment of others. Kind of like how you can modify dice in a dice throwing game.
3) Any more details on the dexterity component?
But excited to see what you guys have come up with!
I had two main queries (which are also scattered around under threads so feel free to just reply here):
1) There are references to more marbles with different physical characteristics. Will there be marbles with different effects? E.g. getting hit with a snake (poison effect) vs getting hit with a fireball - making this up - (set alight), or even positive effects?
2) Will there be ways to modify the marbles or geography to suit you, or to the detriment of others. Kind of like how you can modify dice in a dice throwing game.
3) Any more details on the dexterity component?
But excited to see what you guys have come up with!
So my queries are answered by the design diaries: bees, tiger and trees!!!!
Check out the design diaries: https://restorationgames.com/news/
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: Too Easy? (End of August Spoilers)
by imaloony
Did you get the recon from Jakarta before it was Forsaken? I guess with so few cities in your deck, it wasn't as tough to draw one or two of the red cards in... and definitely possible since you at this point must have someone with outrider and scout helping you out.Yeah, this board is definitely going to make the rest of the game... interesting. Especially now that you've fixed the rule that keeps you guys from doing anything in the forsaken cities. If you would, keep us updated on how things turn out and how the board evolves in November and December too, because I'm extremely curious now.
The resolution was pretty low so I couldn't really tell; do you guys have any permanent structures? And if so, what's where? And I'm also curious on what's the player count, and what characters you guys are running with what upgrades. Just so I can get a better picture of how you guys are running this.
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: Too Easy? (End of August Spoilers)
by loudwalrus
I suspect that in play testing, the creators did not think of this scenario.
Personally, I think they did consider this possibilty. There's a lot we aren't sharing for spoiler reasons. I am REALLY interested in how this turns out for you. You truly are taking a unique approach and I'm interested in if you can pull it off.
Non-specific spoilers:
[o]Frankly, you are probably screwed. You say "it surprises you there isn't more consequences" but, frankly there are. You did miss the "only ferry/drive" consequence. But there are more. A lot more. One thing I've posted in the "end of game spoiler" threads is that there is a lot of strategic consequences in this game. Perhaps more than is "fun". That's why I'm so interested in your game. There's a chance you can stay one step ahead and really pull off something unusual. But, I suspect you are very, very screwed. I look at your board and panic, knowing what I know. I think what you did was an interesting attempt at strategy but one that end up being punished brutally.[/o]
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: Too Easy? (End of August Spoilers)
loudwalrus wrote:
I suspect that in play testing, the creators did not think of this scenario.
Personally, I think they did consider this possibilty. There's a lot we aren't sharing for spoiler reasons. I am REALLY interested in how this turns out for you. You truly are taking a unique approach and I'm interested in if you can pull it off.
Non-specific spoilers:
[o]Frankly, you are probably screwed. You say "it surprises you there isn't more consequences" but, frankly there are. You did miss the "only ferry/drive" consequence. But there are more. A lot more. One thing I've posted in the "end of game spoiler" threads is that there is a lot of strategic consequences in this game. Perhaps more than is "fun". That's why I'm so interested in your game. There's a chance you can stay one step ahead and really pull off something unusual. But, I suspect you are very, very screwed. I look at your board and panic, knowing what I know. I think what you did was an interesting attempt at strategy but one that end up being punished brutally.[/o]
Another non-specific spoiler:
[o]
It's late enough in their game that this can't be remedied, so I hope they've been thinking carefully about putting themselves into positions with the risk of gaining scars. [/o]
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: Best player count?
by imaloony
For the record, from what I heard, two player teams absolutely dunked Season 1 with the disgusting combo of Scientist and Researcher. Since they got more cards to start and more turns each, they very, very swiftly were able to cure all the diseases, which made any further objectives that much easier. So, more players didn't necessarily make Season 1 easier.↧
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order
by imaloony
SonMoekel wrote:
We wanted to discover Europe next, however the game told us "if you didn't explore Europe yet, here get if for free, but kill Frankfurt and rip apart this game-winning card". And that just felt super shitty.
For the record, (and I guess this is kind of a spoiler, but not really so I'm not going to spoiler tag it), this is one of the biggest penalties you get for not doing something on time, and the reason they do it is because opening Europe also gives you the biggest boon: the ability to fly between havens and supply centers. To that end, I'm sure the designers felt like if you hadn't earned that region by reconning it, you had to get a fairly large slap on the wrist.
The only region we didn't recon in time was Africa, which lost us a fairly significant Unrationed Event, but otherwise we felt like the time limits weren't overly strict and it was pretty obvious to us which order to go in. We even got in a recon report that the Hollow Men were moving into Africa, so it was absolutely our fault for not going in sooner.
Most of the havens were given to us before we found them naturally, but there wasn't any penalty for that (other that not having those havens earlier, which isn't bad).
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 2:: General:: Re: Any chance of turning the mechanics into a stand-alone game?
by imaloony
Azotochtli wrote:
That's not what you're getting with a legacy game though. One-time use and then toss it.
There are other legacy games that are working on at least partially fixing that problem, though.
Charterstone features a double-sided board, and by purchasing a recharge pack (which is much cheaper than another game), you can play through the campaign again.
The upcoming Aeon's End: Legacy features a recharge pack that you can buy for the game and notes that you can continue buying recharge packs to play the game as many times as you like without buying a new base game.
I also recall an interview with one of the designers of Pandemic Legacy after Season 1 dropped. The interviewer expressed concern that they were creating a game that could only be played 12 times. To which the designer responded with something along the lines of "No, we created a game that we were sure people would play at least 12 times." I think that's a pretty commendable design philosophy.
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Reply: Fireball Island: The Curse of Vul-Kar:: Crowdfunding:: Re: FIREBALL ISLAND UPDATES!!
I don't know if it's been answered, but are the treasures going to be cardboard tokens, or actual plastic pieces?
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