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Thread: SeaFall:: Rules:: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 7:44 am
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by colinmarsh

[o]

I'm honestly not sure this truly constitutes a spoiler but erring on the safe side seems best. We are 8 games into our campaign and we have an interesting situation which I think is probably fine although it makes me worry we've done something wrong with the rules. We have opened boxes 1 through 4. The only 2 milestones available are using the ornate chart to discover Aratos (unlock) & the one for having 2 or 3 relics.

There are only two undiscovered islands left on the board. One is the island with the Wave symbol on it which I suspect we won't get access to until box 5 opens. The second is your standard explore 12 / 5 VP spot. We have used all of the island stickers. Our interpretation here is that the only way to find the remaining 12/5 island is with the ornate chart. However there is no stipulation in the rules for discovering an island which says, "if there are no more island stickers in the storage box you cannot discover this island through a standard exploration endeavor.

have we done something wrong or is this simply a situation that can arise if a group is highly explore focused (like ours) and loves to chase the 6 glory of uncovering islands ?


[/o]
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 7:47 am
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by repthrd

So wait - do you have the 30 island and then just 1 other island left? Or do you have the 30 island and 2 islands left?
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Reply: Stop Thief!:: General:: Re: Stop Thief -- A Good Day Today. The Stop Thief! Kickstarter is Live

March 15, 2017, 7:50 am
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by JustinDJacobson

Thanks for the kind words. The original minis certainly were cool. We struggled with that decision. A few problems with them. They were all the same sculpt, and not friendly at all to colorblind players. Also, the footprint was too big and would have caused major problems with the board. In the end, I'm super pleased with how the meeples came out. Each one has unique screen printing, matching their distinguishing features on their licenses, which gives them more personality and gives a secondary coding for colorblind players.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 7:57 am
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by woodnoggin

I'd play that if there are no island stickers left, you can't explore for an island the usual way.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:04 am
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by joshaddington

colinmarsh wrote:

[o]

I'm honestly not sure this truly constitutes a spoiler but erring on the safe side seems best. We are 8 games into our campaign and we have an interesting situation which I think is probably fine although it makes me worry we've done something wrong with the rules. We have opened boxes 1 through 4. The only 2 milestones available are using the ornate chart to discover Aratos (unlock) & the one for having 2 or 3 relics.

There are only two undiscovered islands left on the board. One is the island with the Wave symbol on it which I suspect we won't get access to until box 5 opens. The second is your standard explore 12 / 5 VP spot. We have used all of the island stickers. Our interpretation here is that the only way to find the remaining 12/5 island is with the ornate chart. However there is no stipulation in the rules for discovering an island which says, "if there are no more island stickers in the storage box you cannot discover this island through a standard exploration endeavor.

have we done something wrong or is this simply a situation that can arise if a group is highly explore focused (like ours) and loves to chase the 6 glory of uncovering islands ?


[/o]


Box 5 spoiler - mild
[o]
I'm not sure what's confusing at this point. Everything is as it should be.

You can only discover Arados using the Ornate Chart. I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that Arados is the only island left other than the wave symbol island to discover in your game, and the it's revealed when you complete the milestone for using the Ornate Chart.

Do you want to be able to do a standard exploration in order to open Box 5?
[/o]
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:11 am
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by colinmarsh

joshaddington wrote:



Box 5 spoiler - mild
[o]
I'm not sure what's confusing at this point. Everything is as it should be.

You can only discover Arados using the Ornate Chart. I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that Arados is the only island left other than the wave symbol island to discover in your game, and the it's revealed when you complete the milestone for using the Ornate Chart.

Do you want to be able to do a standard exploration in order to open Box 5?
[/o]


response

[o]

no i don't want to be able to do that as it would really break the game. my larger point was - have we done something wrong to end up in this position or is it simply a possibility that can occur that the rules don't happen to mention? the reason i ask this is the rules to cover some edge cases, for instance what happens if there is only one blank spaces in a column. the rules also mention the possibility of no milestones. the rules don't mention the possibility that you'll be out of island stickers. i suspect we're fine but wondered if we'd missed something. generally if you run out of a sticker - a market, a production source - you have done something wrong.

[/o]
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Thoughts on Seafall through Prologue and Game 1 (spoilers through game 1/box 1)

March 15, 2017, 8:14 am
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by Deano2099

iawebb20 wrote:

I think you misinterpret what I'm saying. It's obviously worth it to win mechanically speaking. It's how it makes you feel that is troubling.

The advisor situation is exactly what I was referencing. I was unable to keep anyone as I didn't have one cheaper than the one she chose to hold. Which for a storytelling legacy game the encourages you to name the people you hire and develop stories around them, it isn't the greatest feeling to win and then lose what you feel is a personally developed aspect of your legacy.

Does that make more sense?


It does but that's probably one of those edge cases where the game just doesn't quite work for two players. When you have three or more it becomes a much tougher choice - which of you is going to take the low-cost advisor to stop the winner keeping anything? Knowing full well that whoever does is putting themselves at a disadvantage to the remaining players who can keep the expensive advisors at no loss. So maybe you all keep expensive ones and let the leader keep something after all. It's a cool little mechanic that yeah, would be rubbish with two-players and would likely be one of those systems that would be changed were the game to have official two player rules.

So I wouldn't feel bad about house ruling it. Maybe make it so they can keep an adviser of (value of adviser opponent keeps)+1. Or perhaps that if they roll a success on a single die (which would emulate the unknown element having multiple players adds in). Or let them keep an X+1 adviser but only if it's not the adviser they sticker.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:32 am
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by colinmarsh

repthrd wrote:

So wait - do you have the 30 island and then just 1 other island left? Or do you have the 30 island and 2 islands left?


just the one + the 30.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:32 am
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by LeonardQuirm

You're fine, you need to have space to put the island sticker from Box 5 so you can't explore that column yet. The rules are inconsistent sometimes.

On the topic of "running out of stickers means you've done something wrong" - be aware it's also possible to be one short on +1 Glory stickers (in which case just write it on yourself to the appropriate spot) or Enmity stickers (in which case you need some coloured pens).
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:35 am
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by woodnoggin

LeonardQuirm wrote:

On the topic of "running out of stickers means you've done something wrong" - be aware it's also possible to be one short on +1 Glory stickers (in which case just write it on yourself to the appropriate spot) or Enmity stickers (in which case you need some coloured pens).


You can also run out of atoll stickers: there's one more atoll card than the number of stickers provided.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:38 am
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by colinmarsh

thanks much gentlemen. i will let the group know and also now know that there are other stickers that can run out.
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Reply: SeaFall:: Rules:: Re: Undiscovered Islands (Spoilers through box 4)

March 15, 2017, 8:43 am
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by repthrd

Then you are fine. You don't have anymore island stickers to do the explore action with so you have no more islands to explore. You will get the last spot with a milestone.
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Thoughts on Seafall through Prologue and Game 1 (spoilers through game 1/box 1)

March 15, 2017, 8:45 am
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by DeS_Tructive

iawebb20 wrote:


Firstly, the prologue's twist ending. On paper, I love the idea. More so I think than my fiancee, but nonetheless, I think it's a great storytelling device. Where it fails, in my opinion, is the execution.


I liked the fact that the leaders are disposed of. It sets the tone for the game. Our group was in a slight state of shock, but learned an important lesson right away: Anything you get in Seafall can and will get taken away from you.

From my "designer wannabe" perspective, I would have moved that loss to later, maybe in box one, and I'd given them an "awesome ability" to drive the point home even further.

Especially when you consider they only included one leader of apparent African descent. Who was he supposed to have sired?


I took the black leader. When he died, I sharpie'd sunglasses on the next leader of "Zion" and went with "He's the blind adopted son." I fully agree with you, in that they should have added 5ish more leaders to spread the diversity better.

What we have is a set of rules that boil down to "the loser gets something and the winner gets nothing."


I think you underestimate the power of those permanent boni. I could imagine they're weaker in a two player game, due to an overabundance of resources. In our four player group, the leading player won the first two games. She upgraded her fields twice, and those bonus resources are really helping her in the early game. I'd happily traded off my starting advisor for that.
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Thoughts on Seafall through Prologue and Game 1 (spoilers through game 1/box 1)

March 15, 2017, 9:00 am
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by iawebb20

While the permanent bonuses are excellent (no doubt about that), it has coincidentally happened that due to some random exploration encounter, the other has always managed to get a permanent bonus throughout the game as well. Taking away the novelty of the winner's bonus.

Our games seem to be a study in edge cases.

In other news, in Game 2, we opened box two (by forgetting a rule), and my fiancee made up the gap she was losing by and then some. She was just on fire. This time nothing crazy or disappointing happened, and with colonies unlocked for the next game, we are scratching our heads as to how we can most quickly make use of them as we've been upgrading Sail and Exploration almost exclusively.

Excitement still abounds for what's to come!
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 1:: General:: Re: Anyone else kind of pissed about...(end of December spoilers)

March 15, 2017, 9:31 am
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by Vasher

TheSpooniest wrote:

TwoScoopsOfHot wrote:

I was definitely annoyed by all of this: only having 1 attempt, Team Bravo coming out of nowhere to basically reset the game for you, the losing 200 points.

Two attempts, if you lose the first October game. But the game gives no indication of this, and that's definitely annoying.

I'm not so much a fan of making Patient Zero a mandatory objective, because it feels too heavy-handed: this isn't supposed to be a reading-comprehension game, but making any of the non-December searches mandatory seems a little too much like spoon-feeding. On the other hand, it's definitely the simplest solution to the issue. My own preferred fix is a bit more complex:

1) Move "Time Is Running Out" in the Legacy Deck, so that it gets drawn after your first game in November, rather than before it.
2) Add the following rule to the November Mission Briefing: "You can no longer win games unless Packages 6 and 7 have both been opened. If either of these packages has not been opened yet, place this card on top of any Mandatory Objective as a reminder".

Note that although the text of that second point is meant to sound scary (much like November's Mission Briefing), the timing of the Legacy Deck makes it much less of a threat than it seems, because Time Is Running Out will nullify it after one game. Its real purpose is to give the players one more chance to find Patient Zero, and hammer home the idea that they really, really want to get those boxes open very soon.


You say your not a fan of making the search mandatory, but then your solution does exactly that. I'm confused. :what:
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Reply: Pandemic Legacy: Season 1:: General:: Re: What did you name your diseases? [No Spoilers]

March 15, 2017, 9:40 am
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by educatedgravy

Spukky wrote:

Blue we named Captain Trips.
Black we called The Black Death.
Red we named Rickets.



I'm surprised you are the only other one to go with Captain Trips.

That's the only one we've actually named.
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Thoughts on Seafall through Prologue and Game 1 (spoilers through game 1/box 1)

March 15, 2017, 10:16 am
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by ahmorse

After 6 games, my primary concern is whether the catch-up mechanics are too weak, not too strong. In particular, if the leader is getting a bunch of milestone bonuses, and the winner's bonuses, and has a better sense of how to score points, it can result in a campaign where midway through it looks like the leader is out of reach.

WRT advisors: When I know that I'm going to win the game (or it looks very likely), I look to pick up a very cheap advisor to ensure I get to keep one. When I know that the game's nearly over and I'm not going to win, I'll look to see whether I can pick up a great advisor to keep for the next game. I kinda enjoy the extra dynamic.
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Reply: SeaFall:: General:: Re: Thoughts on Seafall through Prologue and Game 1 (spoilers through game 1/box 1)

March 15, 2017, 10:45 am
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by iawebb20

That's good advice.

3 games in (including the prologue) and we seem fairly evenly matched. We tied for 6 glory in the prologue, then I won the next one with 11 to 6. The second game she creamed me at 12 to 5. So it has been very give and take.

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Reply: Stop Thief!:: General:: Re: Stop Thief -- A Good Day Today. The Stop Thief! Kickstarter is Live

March 15, 2017, 12:13 pm
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by Malek

Can't wait to play this one with my brothers. We haven't played since the early 80s.
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Thread: SeaFall:: General:: We had two people quit - now what?

March 15, 2017, 12:48 pm
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by matherts

We were playing a game with 4 people (two couples), and after we opened box 4 last night, one couple decided to quit.

What should we do? Can we continue playing with 2 people? Should we try and start over or get someone else to join?

Just wondering if anyone had experienced a similar situation and how they dealt with it. Thanks.
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